Ho Lai in her studio, photography by Nico Conti
Damaris Athene: Could you start off by giving an introduction to yourself and your background and how you ended up in London?
Ho Lai: No problem. I studied ceramics and glass at the Royal College of Art and I graduated in 2019. It was a master's degree. Before I moved to London, I studied in Hong Kong. I did my BA in Visual Arts, major in ceramics, at the Academy of visual arts at Hong Kong Baptist University. I'm an artist born and raised in Hong Kong. After that I worked for a year at the M+ museum, and then I came here to pursue my master's degree in ceramics and glass. And here I am.
DA: Now you're still based in London?
HL: Yeah, I have a studio space in South East London, Deptford.
DA: I discovered your work at your RCA degree show and I was blown away because I'd never seen anything made like that with ceramics. I thought, how on earth did she do this? Could speak a bit more about your process?
HL: There are three prominent elements in my work. The first is the development of an idea. Second is material experimentation. Third is the question of processes, and finding unconventional ways to handle the material. Most of the time in ceramics, we handle the clay from its plastic form to a dry form, and then you fire it in the kiln. But for me is really the reverse. I work from plastic clay to dry clay, and then I work it back to wet clay again, and dry it again. First I work out the colour combination and then I prepare the clay by adding colour stains. I dry the clay and then crush it before casting it back into a mould by wetting it. I create ceramic aggregate forms. Then later on, I decide whether I want to add glazes or anything else.
DA: And how did you decide on what forms you're going to make?
HL: At first, I was looking into microscopic images of the human body that describes how skin layers and muscles are formed. As a ceramic ceramics artists for nine years, it is inevitable to have developed back pain and carpal tunnel syndrome.
DA: Oh really?
HL: Yeah, because I was constantly overworking myself back in Hong Kong, everyone was very diligent and very into our work. I came to realise that that's going to hurt me at some point. I have to constantly visit a physio doctor and I would experience numbness of my hands and arms when I was sleeping. As a ceramic artist, body is part of our work, our body is very important. I was upset back then and was looking for ways to heal myself. I started understanding more about my body and how it functions. I was really intrigued by medical illustrations and I started thinking about how my work relates to that. I was thinking about how those aggregates can tell the narratives of the human body.
‘Mellow’ 2020, Porcelain
15cm x 6cm x 5cm
Photo courtesy of Ho Lai
DA: Wow, that's fascinating. I didn't know there was all that research and thinking behind it, but now you mention it, I can completely see the strata of the skin coming through in your work, and there are amazing images that you can find. It's fascinating.
HL: I deliberately tried not make it too obvious for my audience to reach that narrative. Because sometimes, when you're telling too much, there's less for the audience to think and absorb your work. Some of my work seems like it’s liquid and dissolving. The work itself is a manifestation of my human labor and I feel there is going to be a point that labour disappears. Through kiln firing I captured a disappearance, trying to create this paradoxical state that I have encountered when making my work.
DA: Wow, how to do you achieve making something look like it’s melting?
HL: I combine glazes. The whole process was first informed by the dissolving quality of dry clay. With clay when it's dried, you can wet it with water, and then you can reverse it back to plastic clay. My approach is a different from ceramics artists who plan ahead. My process is more like working on a painting, how you respond to the canvas and your brushstrokes. I slowly decide what I want to achieve by responding to what I've made.
DA: That's really interesting, especially as with ceramics there's so much chance. You might put something in the kiln and then when you bring it out it has exploded! Have there been any times when you’ve had a really nice or a horrible surprise, when something has happened in the process that you weren't in control of?
HL: You know with material experimentation it’s inevitable to face failures. There was this time, during my final year, my work exploded in a kiln and it caused so many splinters in the kiln, the glazes were stuck onto the kiln bricks. It was a traumatic experience for me, but at the same time it's a good reminder for me to always think about precautions to protect the kiln equipment. And by not having too much of a preconceived end I feel more excited when I am working with my projects. I’m always looking forward to something, instead of trying to achieve something I’ve already imagined.
DA: No, totally, it's always a surprise. Also, if you work trying create the image in your head, you’re never going to achieve that, no matter what you do, and especially with ceramics. There’s always a need to realign your goals afterwards, which you can avoid.
HL: Yeah, exactly. When I started working with ceramics, there would be times when the pots might go wrong and I was thinking about how to take on this disappointment. Do I let it become a hurdle for my practice? Or do I transform it to something else? Disappointment can also be transformed to another form of hope or motivation. That led me to experiment with materials and accept how materials behave.
Ho Lai’s studio, photo courtesy of Ho Lai
DA: It sounds like an amazing way to work. Could you tell me about how you usually work and whether that's been affected by the pandemic and if so, how?
HL: Yeah, ceramics, it's a material that has a specific timeframe to work with, because it's gonna dry and it requires a lot of attention. You have to babysit your work! During the pandemic I haven’t been able to do that so whenever I'm in the studio I have the pressure to finish something. My momentum is not as strong as before, because I can't go to the studio that often. It's quite annoying, because you don't know when lockdown is going to happen again or be eased. So at home I’ve been attending lectures and online courses, reading, sketching and doing paperwork.
DA: How has your work developed since leaving the RCA? Obviously, the pandemic's happens and that might change things, but apart from that.
HL: I think my work has evolved from a more complex process to a more distilled approach. At the RCA I tried to show everything from my test results. The pandemic has given me time to reflect and filter out the important elements from my work.
DA: It sounds like that's been really beneficial. Whose work inspires you?
HL: Ron Nagle an American ceramics artist. I like the way he contrasts a smooth and glossy glaze with a matte one and how he uses colour gradation. Also Takuro Kuwata, a Japanese artist who makes crazy, colourful ceramics with blobs coming out. He has been a pioneer in the field. And Pam Su who was the year above me at the RCA. Her practice is certainly groundbreaking.
DA: I'll have to check all of them out! Do you look to any other types of art apart from ceramics for inspiration?
HL: Yeah, definitely. Louise Bourgeois. As a female artist, I resonate so much with her work. Her work has informed my practice so much and also her ideology as a sculptor, her artistic approach in finding new ways to handle material has ignited me to think about how I can apply that to ceramics. Beside her, David Hockney and Francis Bacon's and their great colour combinations.
‘Aggregates’ 2019, Porcelain & Glazes
Left - 8.5cm x 16cm x 8.5cm, Middle - 8cm x 8cm x 10cm, Right - 5cm x 5cm x 12 cm
Photo courtesy of Ho Lai
DA: That's fascinating. Louise Bourgeois is someone that I really admire myself. What are you working on at the moment?
HL: I’m currently working on the British Ceramics Biennial AWARD, which will be shown this year in September. It’s about material experimentation and my identity as a Hong Kong British citizen. I hope this work will resonate with people in the future who migrate to the UK.
DA: Congratulations! That sounds like a really exciting project.
HL: Besides that I’ve been working on a series related to lockdown, about how the only way that I can connect with the outside world is looking through the window.
DA: I'm very intrigued to see how that manifests.
HL: I've also been revisiting techniques that I didn’t have the time to develop while I was at the RCA.
DA: Are you able to get into your studio in Deptford at the moment?
HL: I try to organise my time to reduce the risk of commuting by having studio days and home office days. It trained me how to manage my time better.
DA: That’s a good way to do it. Do you have a favourite piece that you've made?
HL: I would say my favourite piece is ‘Return’. The culture in the east and the west is very different. I've always admired people here, that they have confidence talking about their work unlike myself sometimes. Going to the RCA has given me much more confidence, but during the final year show I was always unsure about myself. My final year project was a milestone for the experiments that I conducted in the RCA.
‘Return’ 2019, Porcelain & Glazes
24cm x 14cm x 12cm
Photo courtesy of Ho Lai
DA: I'm so excited to see what you make next. Surely you can't innovate again, but it sounds like you will be!
HL: Thank you so much. I feel like my work is a bit different from the rest of my classmates, not something that an audience can always anticipate. Is that a vase? Is that a bowl? Some people would ask me, What are these? Is it meant to be used?
DA: I can see how that could be an awkward space to inhabit, but at the same time it makes you really unique. I definitely see them as sculptures. Would you mind if someone bought a piece and then used it as a functional object?
HL: I wouldn't mind. If a person collects my work they have ownership and it depends on that owner to take on its function.
DA: Sure, that makes sense. Is there anything else you want that we haven’t spoken about yet?
HL: Yeah, I was very lucky because I graduated before the pandemic happened, but I really feel for people who have just graduated. So many exhibitions have been canceled and that physical exposure is important for us. It's a challenging period of time. I have great admiration for the emerging artists who are still continuing their practices at the moment, despite what is happening.
Colour testing, photo courtesy of Ho Lai
DA: Yeah, it must be so hard, especially for everyone currently studying. First years at the RCA haven't even been able to get into their studios yet!
HL: Yeah, I also feel for them. It's really sad because ceramics is a material that needs studio space and equipment, like jewellery and even painting.
DA: Yeah. Do you know people studying there at the moment?
HL: Yeah, some students in their first and second year are having to pay extra money to rent another space. When you are already paying so much for the tuition, and still have to pay extra for material and studio space…I think it is not very fair.
DA: No, not at all. They should be getting their money back.
HL: Yeah, it’s crazy. I want to encourage everyone who's still making, we are together!
DA: Yeah!
HL: Also don't to be too stressed out, because I think when we are too anxious about the current situation, that can drain away our creativity as well. So, you know, just chill, relax, and keep making!
DA: A good motto for life, I think! Thank you so much. It's been so lovely meeting you.
HL: Thank you!
Close up of ‘Mellow’ 2020, Porcelain
Photo courtesy of Ho Lai
